Interview conducted in Summer of 2014
DT: How did your overall interest in history get started?
KH: I believe it started with my reading the paper and seeing the saga of the old Korvette building in Southgate being vacant for so long. Joe Hoshaw was the writer on a lot of those articles. And he would state the history of the building, that it was vacant for "x" amount of years after being active for 17 years. It (the article) would mention how the building was falling apart because of disuse. Then, as I'm passing Woodhaven, I'm seeing the old refinery (Socony-Mobil) being torn down. Now I'm saying to myself, we're losing history here. The landmarks are gone. And what goes up is basically for utility, not for memories of long standing. And my mind kept going back to the way things were. "Remember the refinery?" "Oh, this building was here." "Its name used to be," et cetra. |
Not having a camera to take the photos just before these things would vanish was the most frustrating thing, and I would scope the internet to see if any of this material was saved. I never saw a thing. I began to think, what's going on with the history preservation? That's why I did a local access show called "Pages Of Time" for a year, hoping to recover some of this information. That in itself was influenced by a special I did on the old Detroit Interurban Train system one night on Grosse Ile. But this was before the internet, before we had the speed to access things. It was laborous to the point of not going to a second season. I felt I did a little, but not enough. So thru all that, I began to really appreciate the things which came before what we see now.
DT: What do you remember as your first memory of Downriver?
KH: Outside of the house, I think it was the first time I went bowling. My parents were on leagues over at Sport Bowl (on Biddle in Wyandotte), and they knew the owners (the Shay family) quite well. I don't think I was much above two years old at the time. I remember really wanting to take the ball and bowl. So I trunged up to the foul line and let the thing go, and it would land in the gutter within five feet. I had no concept of aim at that age (laughs). But I didn't think much of it, and obviously someone sensed I would be upset rather quickly. |
So either Mom or Dad must have gone to the counter to talk to Mr. Shay, because the next thing I knew, I was actually being marched down the lane itself to where the arrows are. About half-way down the lane, and they were allowing me to release the ball from there. That might have been the 1970s version of bumper bowling, I suppose. And I was hitting the 7-pin and 10-pin each time up. So I knew about those arrows a lot sooner than most older kid bowlers, although it took awhile to know their true purpose... Reading into their history, I don't think Sport lasted more than another year after that, and I never knew why they were tore down until I saw the photo of it in 1975.
DT: How did you find out about the original Facebook site, "Downriver Things That Are Not There Anymore"?
KH: Happenstance. Pure luck. I was friends on Facebook with a lady named Mary Ann. On the notifications, I saw she commented on a post. I was thinking, Downriver? Our Downriver? There's something out there after all? I was curious, and then absolutely had to be a member. As huge as Facebook was, I didn't think it treated localized subjects with much respect. I thought I was in a majority minority, so to say; about the only person who would think of the past this way. It felt like a hidden interest to that point. I wouldn't mention it. Now I can't even remember a time like that. I found 21,000 people (at the time) couldn't be wrong.
DT: How did you end up becoming an administrator?
KH: I posted something, I don't remember what it was about, but it gained about 250 responses right away. Katie (Bashlor) then hit me up on the (Facebook messenger) saying that responses above 250 comments could be reposted. I got back to her, saying whoops, I didn't know the rule, but I'll abide. Then we talked a bit more, we shared the same historical knowledge, and then she offered me the position. To be able to help oversee a sight with material that has interested me for many years, I jumped at that. And I still do.
DT: What made you decide to take Downriver Things to the regular web?
KH: It wasn't the original intent. It was a dream, but I didn't think I was the one to power it. The big concern to me were the photos, and how to keep them. We unfortunately had a couple instances where people would post photos on Facebook, then due to some argument, would yank them. They're nowhere to be found, you can't get them on Google, I don't know who the source was, and how will we be able to get them again? Some of them came back, some didn't. I was sensitive to this. I figured we had to do a backup. The original idea was to put these photos on flash drive. But what if I lost that? It would mean nothing. Then I thought, why not have a site online to basically back up these photos, and yet have people aboard to enjoy them? That's when I tried Flickr, and that's how it's done these days. It was a backup site, basically, until I got the idea to do this site. Now it's complimentary beyond what I originally thought it would be. And now it's even better, as (Facebook) seems to have a limit on photo count; seems like it never goes above 5,000-something, and then old photos are lopped off. Fortunately, I got most all of those.
DT: So the idea for the site came from the Flickr account?
KH: It did. I had a friend who had a site called "Downriver Locations Thru The Years," which showed the addresses of all the old places from the 1900s on. He had a great eye for detail, and used Polk Directories and News-Herald guides and articles to get his info down. That was on the Tripod web builder, which I began the site on. Then there were too many popups. And I don't know anything about HTML except that it's all in capital (letters). I shopped around for a basic web builder, and that's where I found Weebly (the current provider). I couldn't believe the ease of it. And that made getting the information that much more fun. So the basic projects were becoming specialty projects. And it's the mind that's been going (crazy) ever since. The website is in its second re-design, a major one. And I look forward to advancing it further than ever thought about.
DT: How has the progress been going on it so far?
KH: Slow. I don't get much done because I don't have internet at my place, the computer I use is always in use by others, and I have family commitments, obviously. I get more done in a spiral notebook than I can online. At least the ideas take root there. I wish I had more time to branch them out.
KH: Happenstance. Pure luck. I was friends on Facebook with a lady named Mary Ann. On the notifications, I saw she commented on a post. I was thinking, Downriver? Our Downriver? There's something out there after all? I was curious, and then absolutely had to be a member. As huge as Facebook was, I didn't think it treated localized subjects with much respect. I thought I was in a majority minority, so to say; about the only person who would think of the past this way. It felt like a hidden interest to that point. I wouldn't mention it. Now I can't even remember a time like that. I found 21,000 people (at the time) couldn't be wrong.
DT: How did you end up becoming an administrator?
KH: I posted something, I don't remember what it was about, but it gained about 250 responses right away. Katie (Bashlor) then hit me up on the (Facebook messenger) saying that responses above 250 comments could be reposted. I got back to her, saying whoops, I didn't know the rule, but I'll abide. Then we talked a bit more, we shared the same historical knowledge, and then she offered me the position. To be able to help oversee a sight with material that has interested me for many years, I jumped at that. And I still do.
DT: What made you decide to take Downriver Things to the regular web?
KH: It wasn't the original intent. It was a dream, but I didn't think I was the one to power it. The big concern to me were the photos, and how to keep them. We unfortunately had a couple instances where people would post photos on Facebook, then due to some argument, would yank them. They're nowhere to be found, you can't get them on Google, I don't know who the source was, and how will we be able to get them again? Some of them came back, some didn't. I was sensitive to this. I figured we had to do a backup. The original idea was to put these photos on flash drive. But what if I lost that? It would mean nothing. Then I thought, why not have a site online to basically back up these photos, and yet have people aboard to enjoy them? That's when I tried Flickr, and that's how it's done these days. It was a backup site, basically, until I got the idea to do this site. Now it's complimentary beyond what I originally thought it would be. And now it's even better, as (Facebook) seems to have a limit on photo count; seems like it never goes above 5,000-something, and then old photos are lopped off. Fortunately, I got most all of those.
DT: So the idea for the site came from the Flickr account?
KH: It did. I had a friend who had a site called "Downriver Locations Thru The Years," which showed the addresses of all the old places from the 1900s on. He had a great eye for detail, and used Polk Directories and News-Herald guides and articles to get his info down. That was on the Tripod web builder, which I began the site on. Then there were too many popups. And I don't know anything about HTML except that it's all in capital (letters). I shopped around for a basic web builder, and that's where I found Weebly (the current provider). I couldn't believe the ease of it. And that made getting the information that much more fun. So the basic projects were becoming specialty projects. And it's the mind that's been going (crazy) ever since. The website is in its second re-design, a major one. And I look forward to advancing it further than ever thought about.
DT: How has the progress been going on it so far?
KH: Slow. I don't get much done because I don't have internet at my place, the computer I use is always in use by others, and I have family commitments, obviously. I get more done in a spiral notebook than I can online. At least the ideas take root there. I wish I had more time to branch them out.
"... some of the stories which bring back memories of ancestors, settlers and such, it makes for great reading." |
DT: What is the most enjoyable aspect of assisting the monitoring of Downriver Things?
KH: The photos, for sure, and some of the stories which bring back memories of ancestors, settlers, and such, it makes for great reading. |
Sometimes I'll also do trivia bits, Friday Flashbacks, and I enjoy seeing the results and being bowled over by the huge response. The one poll I put in (November, 2014) to put in an initial Downriver Hall Of Fame class got over 520 votes. Those were hard to keep track of in the notebook with nothing but hash marks all the way. But thanks to a great majority of regular viewers, I think we got ourselves a great initial "Hall" class.
DT: What photo or story would be considered a "gold mine" that has not yet been seen?
KH: We're actually seeing some great finds that were goldmines recently. The one I found was the Southgate Shopping Center water tower in its second phase. People knew it started with having an "S" on it, then a blank, then the old Service Merchandise logo, then a "Welcome to Southgate" message. No one knew what in fact the second paint job was. Turned out it was a "down" arrow pointing toward the stem of the tower, which read "Federal." I had not seen that since it had been painted over, I think it was about 1977 or so. I know most people early on wanted (to see) a photo of the old Forge Restaurant in Riverview, which we don't have. Wonderland Park in Southgate (where Southgate Lincoln dealer is now), we'd like more of a surface than aerial shot. Hance Airfield was another big one that multiple members finally brought in with us. I'd love to see the center court of Southland from the 1970s, when they had the birdcages, metal bars, fish tank, and so forth. The chess clock (above where Winkleman's used to be) is probably my yet-to-be-seen goldmine. I have to cite (Southland) when asked about appreciation of history; Southland's 25th anniversary had a photo montage in center court showing all the views. I've not been able to tap into that yet.
DT: What subjects do you feel deserve more attention or accolade, if any?
KH: Anything which has to do with cities that haven't been touched upon too much lately. Looking at Taylor, for example. We have a decent stockpile of photos, but nothing recent. I know I'd like to see more about Southland Mall's early history, in addition to those gray bars.
KH: We're actually seeing some great finds that were goldmines recently. The one I found was the Southgate Shopping Center water tower in its second phase. People knew it started with having an "S" on it, then a blank, then the old Service Merchandise logo, then a "Welcome to Southgate" message. No one knew what in fact the second paint job was. Turned out it was a "down" arrow pointing toward the stem of the tower, which read "Federal." I had not seen that since it had been painted over, I think it was about 1977 or so. I know most people early on wanted (to see) a photo of the old Forge Restaurant in Riverview, which we don't have. Wonderland Park in Southgate (where Southgate Lincoln dealer is now), we'd like more of a surface than aerial shot. Hance Airfield was another big one that multiple members finally brought in with us. I'd love to see the center court of Southland from the 1970s, when they had the birdcages, metal bars, fish tank, and so forth. The chess clock (above where Winkleman's used to be) is probably my yet-to-be-seen goldmine. I have to cite (Southland) when asked about appreciation of history; Southland's 25th anniversary had a photo montage in center court showing all the views. I've not been able to tap into that yet.
DT: What subjects do you feel deserve more attention or accolade, if any?
KH: Anything which has to do with cities that haven't been touched upon too much lately. Looking at Taylor, for example. We have a decent stockpile of photos, but nothing recent. I know I'd like to see more about Southland Mall's early history, in addition to those gray bars.
"As a kid I just spent time looking out the windows whenever we drove. I wasn't much of a talker. I was more of a watcher. I think that helped get my geography down." |
DT: What was life like growing up in Southgate? What do you remember about the type of town it was, and what about its people?
KH: Nothing really about the city in particular in as much as the neighborhood I grew up in. I remember using my tricycle to go from where I lived (south of the old Frank's Nursery) to the old Lucky Drugstore at Fordline & Eureka. Going down there now, almost 40 years later, it's almost like I never left. The houses all look the same. I can even tell you that certain trees have been pruned or chopped down. As a kid I just spent time looking out the windows whenever we drove. I wasn't much of a talker. I was more of a watcher. I think that helped get my geography down, my sense of bearing. |
I had great neighbors, no fear of the neighborhood. Of course, with kids, things are seen from different eyes than they are when they become adults. When we'd go to that drugstore, I remember the one clerk, Angie. She had this watch which was obviously in a promotion for Ritz Crackers. Instead of numbers, you had crackers. Every time I'd go in, I'd want to see the watch. She was older, and had no problem smiling and saying, "You see?" Those were good first and lasting impressions. I don't think I could get away with that today. I'd be looked at oddly.
DT: You had lived in Garden City for about seven years. In that time, did you miss Downriver?
KH: People can take me out of Downriver, but you can't take the Downriver out of me. I've said that for years. We may be moving out of state, but Downriver, for better or worse, will always be home to me. It's where I always have my bearings straight. I can appreciate and note any changes that have taken place.
KH: People can take me out of Downriver, but you can't take the Downriver out of me. I've said that for years. We may be moving out of state, but Downriver, for better or worse, will always be home to me. It's where I always have my bearings straight. I can appreciate and note any changes that have taken place.
DT: When someone says "Downriver," does a certain photo or story stand out to you right away?
KH: Heinz Prechter, above all else. I remember anything named "Heritage" on the west end of Southgate was Mr. Prechter's image. He took all that over and was supposed to overhaul it into something more auto-based. He was German-based, and started (ASC) off in California, but when they mention Mr. Prechter, I think "Downriver". |
"The area misses him and his influence." |
It's funny to remember that he was one of the main proponents of changing the name of the area to Metro Shores. I had to re-read that a couple times in the paper to find it indeed came from him. Regardless... the area misses him and his influence. He will be Downriver just because of his love for the area and his vision for transformation in a positive light.
DT: What do you think was Downriver's most notable event?
KH: Any real happening was notable to me. I can't really think of one.
KH: Any real happening was notable to me. I can't really think of one.
"Look at the national history books. We had wars, we lost (many) thousands of people. Crushing news. But some of history's most important lessons have come from struggle. That happens locally as well... We have to see both sides of the story. Our aim is not to injure or insult, but to inform." |
DT: There are, ultimately, sensitive issues Downriver has had to deal with (for instance, the tragedy of the DeLisle family, Samantha Reid, the crash of Flight 255). In your opinion, what is the best way to acknowledge these events and talk about them without sounding depressing?
KH: Each time depends on the situation. Each situation has to be handled differently. You have to think about the degree that it could affect the viewer. Was it a minor issue, or one that made headlines and caused a lot of bad feeling? The Facebook site has had its own run of certain subjects which are better off not discussed... they have caused bad feeling. But to not acknowledge that would be denying history. Look at the national history books. We had wars, we lost thousands of people. Crushing news. But some of history's most important lessons have come from struggle. That happens locally as well. I know the (Lawrence) DeLisle case was a difficult decision to make for this site. We didn't even put it up on Facebook. Sometimes, I have to admit that Facebook feedback is a little too easy to give. And when I did put up the DeLisle story, I decided I would not put photos of Larry or the site of the accident on. |
It's been 25 years (as of 2014), but memories can still be biting, if not fresh. Thinking about it, I may choose to do so, because it is, after all, a history lesson. Downriver has had its good and its bad. We have to see both sides of the story. Our aim is not to injure or insult, but to inform. Not all people will be able to handle certain events because of the tragedy and pain involved. The most important thing to know is that I'm not a robot monitoring a site. I totally understand the feelings. This is why for issues like this, I think carefully about how to bring it up, and if there's too much indecision, it would go by the wayside.
DT: Do you forsee better times ahead for the area?
KH: I think the majority of people feel that this economic slowdown predated the one the country had, and its post-dated it as well. I try not to be too critical, but state-wide, it's because we limited ourselves to the auto industry as the number one item, and didn't have a backup industry, like tourism, to help carry the state through. Downriver, like everyone else, can certainly make it all the way back, but it just cannot be done the way it once could be. The whole coast of Wyandotte was all chemical factories, north and south. My Uncle used to say that once you got out of High School or Trade School, just walk through the doors, get employed, and if you do good, you have a good future. My father would say the same thing about various machine shops along Allen Road. You wore out your welcome at one, you'd say "sorry about that," walk next door, and you still had a paycheck coming. The mom and pop stores were around, you didn't hear of the term "big box." You can't reverse the progress of progress. Like it or not, we are where we are. But we do have the ability to diversify and look beyond what's troubling us. It takes leaders. And it seems to be more difficult to find those leaders. But the right ones, in the right positions, will help turn the corner. It needs time.
KH: I think the majority of people feel that this economic slowdown predated the one the country had, and its post-dated it as well. I try not to be too critical, but state-wide, it's because we limited ourselves to the auto industry as the number one item, and didn't have a backup industry, like tourism, to help carry the state through. Downriver, like everyone else, can certainly make it all the way back, but it just cannot be done the way it once could be. The whole coast of Wyandotte was all chemical factories, north and south. My Uncle used to say that once you got out of High School or Trade School, just walk through the doors, get employed, and if you do good, you have a good future. My father would say the same thing about various machine shops along Allen Road. You wore out your welcome at one, you'd say "sorry about that," walk next door, and you still had a paycheck coming. The mom and pop stores were around, you didn't hear of the term "big box." You can't reverse the progress of progress. Like it or not, we are where we are. But we do have the ability to diversify and look beyond what's troubling us. It takes leaders. And it seems to be more difficult to find those leaders. But the right ones, in the right positions, will help turn the corner. It needs time.
"History is underrated in a big way. Many think it's simply a Wikipedia or book of facts with statistics. Until you live it or around it... It takes one who has lived it to be able to explain it..." |
DT: Do you feel more young people need to be attuned to their history of where they grew up?
KH: I do think so. The saying always was to never forget where you came from. I started doing TV about 20 years ago, I've been out of TV for more than a decade, but I always look at that period of time and realize it as my most creative. I still think of the people, the teachers, the students that influenced me. These people were in my life for a reason. Buried though it is, that old Comcast studio in Flat Rock, I will always appreciate. It's part of my history. It's a good way to keep people grounded in reality so they never go too high, never feel too low. It's the same with historical events. History is underrated in a big way. |
Many think it's simply a Wikipedia or book of facts with statistics. Until you live it or around it, the history is never ground into a person effectively. It takes one who has lived it to be able to explain it better. To see younger generations at historical events, learning, is very encouraging. The gentleman who runs the Southgate Historical House actually mentioned that he now hosts parties without needing to serve tea at lunches. The lunches are more contemporary, which means the newer generations who didn't always drink tea are getting in there. We have to keep spreading the word. That's part of what this site seeks to do.
DT: Do you have advice for amateur history buffs looking to learn more about Downriver, or whichever area they grew up in?
KH: Until this digitization project the (Downriver Genealogical) society is doing really takes effect and you can access virtually anything, the two places I can suggest are to visit the Bacon Library in Wyandotte, as well as Trenton's historical archives. Wyandotte is truly blessed to have a tremendous collection as well as a great curator (Wallace Hayden) to help those with questions. I have to admit I was nervous when I first walked through those doors. But when you realize they are there to help, any nerves go out the window.
DT: Looking back, do you feel your efforts have, or can, open the door to more talk, respect, and reflections of Downriver, to aid in an improved image?
KH: It definitely will make it more noticeable on Google (laughs). But I've been working on this site for nearly two years (as of this interview) and every day it seems I learn something different. That's what makes getting into history so good.
DT: Where do you see the Downriver Things website a year from now? Five years from now?
KH: Maybe it about a year's time, it will be 50% done, and in five years about 75% (laughs). It's all a matter of access right now. It looks klutzy right now, but there is an image of how I want it to look. Definitely by spring of 2015 I hope to have all the information together. Then the next phase is to publicize. I want to wait until this is done before I publicize it. What I want to do is what the long-term mission statement says. I'd love this to be a link between sites, societies, non-profits, and so forth. Not to be a competing source in the subject, but to help and aid other sites in promoting their messages.
KH: Until this digitization project the (Downriver Genealogical) society is doing really takes effect and you can access virtually anything, the two places I can suggest are to visit the Bacon Library in Wyandotte, as well as Trenton's historical archives. Wyandotte is truly blessed to have a tremendous collection as well as a great curator (Wallace Hayden) to help those with questions. I have to admit I was nervous when I first walked through those doors. But when you realize they are there to help, any nerves go out the window.
DT: Looking back, do you feel your efforts have, or can, open the door to more talk, respect, and reflections of Downriver, to aid in an improved image?
KH: It definitely will make it more noticeable on Google (laughs). But I've been working on this site for nearly two years (as of this interview) and every day it seems I learn something different. That's what makes getting into history so good.
DT: Where do you see the Downriver Things website a year from now? Five years from now?
KH: Maybe it about a year's time, it will be 50% done, and in five years about 75% (laughs). It's all a matter of access right now. It looks klutzy right now, but there is an image of how I want it to look. Definitely by spring of 2015 I hope to have all the information together. Then the next phase is to publicize. I want to wait until this is done before I publicize it. What I want to do is what the long-term mission statement says. I'd love this to be a link between sites, societies, non-profits, and so forth. Not to be a competing source in the subject, but to help and aid other sites in promoting their messages.
"... Put me anywhere else in the state or country, and I'll always be wondering what's going on back home." |
DT: In conclusion... Summarize the Downriver experience for us.
KH: Its simply home to me. It's where I discovered life. I did a lot of bike-riding and walking, a lot of riding around on local drives, before we really took longer ones. Everything else would look alien. Others may not see the difference between one neighborhood and the next, but I certainly did. Whenever I drive back into the area, my bearings are automatically reset: I know directions, I know sites, streets. That is what you call home. |
Now I may not miss the way some current conditions in the area are. I could do without the violent crimes surrounding me -- we all could. But put me anywhere else in the state or country, and I'll always be wondering what's going on back home... That's how I've been bred, and that's how I'll go forward.